Podcast #5: Holy Conversations

As I write this blog and record this podcast, I am still sheltering in place with my family, slowly increasing our “social bubble” if you will. I am writing and recording the week after the tragic death of George Floyd. This week I have spent time curating resources to help families talk about race and racism in their homes.

As I worked on this website which can be found above or through my website: riotexas.org/family, I was reminded once again of how important it is to create space for hard conversations. I call these holy conversations because I truly believe that when we take a moment to stop and engage in conversation with one another, God is with us guiding us in and through the difficult, awkward, beautiful, messy moments. 

So today, I want to talk realistically about how we can create space for these moments in our homes without adding to our stress and anxiety.

The more I talk to families during the pandemic, and the more I grow in my own experience of raising a child in the midst of today’s world, the more I am telling my self to keep things simple. This has been a mantra that I have encouraged families to take for several years now, and in the midst of chaos when we feel like we keep getting hit by wave after wave of difficult moments, I am reminded once again of the importance of using this mantra in our daily lives.

What will we have for dinner? Keep it simple

What will we do this weekend? Keep it simple

How will I talk to my child about race and racism? Keep it simple.

And so as we begin today’s conversation I want to invite all of us to keep this mantra at the forefront of our conversation.

The other mantra I want us to consider is this: it will be messy

One of my favorite authors, Rabbi Nancy Fuchs writes about how faith formation in the home is messy in her book:  Our Share of Night, Our Share of Morning: Parenting As a Spiritual Journey. We begin with great intensions: We have a book, we intend to gather around the table to go through the scripture and the devotional and we bring our hopes of getting to the questions and having great conversations. Then it all starts to unravel- I burn myself cooking dinner, someone spills their milk, another says this is silly or answers “I don’t know” to every question….you may have your own experiences. It is in these moments that we are invited to embrace the mess, find stillness in the chaos, and to remember to “keep it simple”

I recently began listening to Brené Brown’s new podcast- Unlocking Us. In her first episode she talks about FFT’s…. in order to keep the language clean for this family site, I will use her other abbreviation: TFT: Terrible First Times. She talks about the messiness, and the vulnerability one must practice in order too find the courage to try something for the first time. 

Admittedly- my podcast is a TFT for me- I have found myself having to be vulnerable in a whole new way- so much so- I put off this podcast for 2 years with the fear that it would not be perfect. Well- 6 episodes in I am the first to admit that my podcast is not perfect, I’m learning ALOT as I move through this process, and I have found that along the way some of you have learned and tried new things too. So it is messy, it is not perfect, it feels awkward and weird and in the midst of it: God is at work.

So, as we try new things in our family during this time let’s all commit to: keeping it simple as we embrace the mess.

After all it is in practice that we grow and move towards perfection right?

With that in mind- let’s return to our topic of Holy conversations. This past week I have received numerous e-mails and phone calls and texts asking: How do I talk to my children about George Floyd’s death and the protests? How do we talk about race and racism? How can I help raise my children to show love and kindness to every person? These are all really big questions. I imagine these aren’t the only big questions you and your children are asking. I know over the last 3 months I have heard really big questions being asked by people of all ages: Why are so many people getting sick? Why can’t I go to school to see my friends and teachers? What does life look like now? 

As we seek to keep things simple and as we embrace the mess, it is important to remember that often times there is not one right answer. We do not gather for holy conversation in order to simply share the answer. If that were the case these conversations would not be hard and they would not be messy. We would simply say “well the answer is…” and then move on. In my opinion that is not a conversation but is instead one person stating their understanding as they try to sweep the real issues and concerns under the rug avoiding the hard part of the conversation all together. As my friend and colleague Rev. Kathy Pittenger writes: "Parents may be uncertain of what to say or how to start the conversation. It's important to start and not wait until you have the "right" words. Acknowledge that you might say something that may be offense or "wrong" - take a humble position of learning and learn from your mistakes.”

Early in my career as a pastor, I began teaching human sexuality classes. Nothing taught me more about the importance of having difficult conversations than these experiences did. Parents, as you can imagine, felt terrified to talk about sexuality with their children, because they were not comfortable with the topic either. I found over time that if I just gave them permission to say: “I don’t know” that everyone breathed a deeper breath and found a way to engage in these important conversations. 

We enter into holy conversations knowing that we may not have all of the answers, we too may not feel comfortable talking about a specific topic, and that members of our family may not want to engage either. This is when we need to have grace with ourselves and our family members. It is not a great idea to say: we will sit down and have a 10 minute conversation about this, like it or not. But instead we open space for conversation by allowing questions to guide us and by saying: “you know what, that is a big question, I’d love to talk to you about that. Can we talk about that tonight over dinner, or at bedtime?” Or “I have time right now, would you like to sit down and have this conversation?” When we take the time to honor the importance of the questions, to create space to have the conversation which means dedicating time, and when we are vulnerable and share that we don’t know, then we are inviting our family to join us in the learning and growing process.

So with all these things in mind- what can a holy conversation look like?

Make Time

First- make sure you have time to have the conversation. You don’t want to be rushed or distracted. Again- if a question is raised when you are busy or distracted you can honor that questionably saying: “that is an important question, I wonder when can we have this conversation when we can really focus?” Of course the most important part of this space is honoring your commitment. Put it on your calendar if you have to. Set a time and stick to it giving your family your full attention.

Gather

Second- gather in a safe space. In my holy conversation resources I talk about the importance of creating safe space. Some might want to create a space just for these holy conversations- examples include setting out pillows in your favorite corner of a room, decorating a table with a bible and a candle to light as a reminder that things are different when you are in this space. I talk about these possibilities in my holy conversation resources that can be found at: riotexas.org/family. And in the effort to keep things simple, I want to be honest and real with you- you probably already have this sacred and safe space… for some it might be the dinner table, for others it my be a swing or chairs outside. You don’t have to create a space for these conversations to happen- but instead you might let your family members choose where they want to gather. In full transparency- my family’s safe space has become our bedroom at bedtime. We gather together- often times my husband holds our son in our big comfy chair as he reads bedtime stories. I sometimes sit on the ottoman, or sit on my yoga mat that is on the floor by the chair… we gather in this space every night so it has become our space. We didn’t do anything to make it special- it has become our space over time. In this space we read stories, sing songs, say prayers, and have holy conversations. This is where we share our joys and concerns at the end of the day that often leads to other conversations too. Over the last 13 months of my son’s life this space has evolved and become a safe space for us. I wonder- where does your family already gather? Where are spaces that have become familiar and safe to you? As you keep things simple- you might start by gathering in this space or asking your family where they would like to gather.

Connect

Next- take time to connect: Physically connect- look into each other's eyes, hold hands, offer hugs or other comforting gestures. Be present with one another…. Light a candle to remind each of you that God is with you…. this might be weird for older children or adolescents so you can choose to leave this out. Find a way to connect with God. It might be saying a short phrase: “God thank-you for being with us in this space.” Or you might choose to read scripture, or a story together. In the beginning this might feel weird and that is ok. Step into it and try it out. Just don’t give up. If it is messy and weird try again the next day. The more we practice, the easier and more natural it will become. In an attempt to keep things simple, you might want to jump right in to wondering together… especially if your child has already been asking questions.

Wonder

The next step is to wonder together.The beauty of the art of wondering is that you can ask open questions without the expectation that someone will have the “right” answer. In wondering together you can discover what others are feeling, thinking, or discovering. My favorite wondering question to begin with is: “I wonder how you are feeling?” I wonder what you have heard on the news? I wonder what questions you have? Creating space for silence as members of your family think and process is essential. This is where you have to be prepared to embrace the mess. Many people in our culture are uncomfortable with silence so someone might get antsy, some one might get up and walk around, or someone might state their frustration with the process. Welcome those responses and feelings while staying grounded in the space you’ve created. If you stay grounded and wait you will be surprised with the response that might come. When practicing wondering together- at the beginning it might be messy and family members may not be ready to share- and that is ok. What you are doing is creating the space and saying: “this is important to me and I am here to listen to you.” At the end of the silence if no one has responded you can say: “This is a big question.. if you are not ready to share that’s ok…. We can have another conversation soon.” Then of course, you will want to make that a priority by setting a date and time to check in with them again. Over time you may find your family starts to open up as they begin to feel safe and find the courage to be vulnerable too.

Nothing has taught me this more than my time sitting with children in holy listening circles. In the beginning of our time together we do a lot of sitting, fidgeting, picking at the carpet…etc. I have had a lot of time to practice waiting and sitting in silence. It is not easy- but I promise it is worth it. I have found that when I do this after 3-4 weeks children really start to open up. As long as I allow them to share without judgment or shame they are more than willing to do it again, and again, and again. 6 weeks into this process I often find children are asking to have conversations and when I begin wondering questions the entire circle lights up as children eagerly share. It takes time and patience. The most important thing is not to judge, shame, or force. You can do this! Keep it simple… ask one question and see what happens- you might be surprised by what your children and family members say.

Work/Respond

As you end your time together I always like to ask: I wonder what God is calling us to do next? This moves our conversation into action. We all are called and equipped to do God’s work in the world and often times holy conversations help us identify how God is calling us to respond and to act. 

Pray

Conclude your time with a short prayer. you can use a pre-written prayer or you can ask one of your family members to pray- what ever feels comfortable to you.

Bless

As you prepare to leave the space, find a way to bless your family members- you might simply say- “thank-you for having this conversation with me, I am grateful for you.” Or if you have been practicing blessing your family this is a great time to offer them an individual blessing reminding them that they are loved by you and by God. For more information on family blessings you can listen to Growing Together Podcast Episode #3: Blessing.

I have templates for these holy conversations too. You can find links to these at riotexas.org/family

Believe it or not, all of this can be done in 5 minutes or 30. It really depends on your family and their comfort with this process. Just by creating the space you will be showing them that you are present, that you care what they think, that you want to have these conversations and that they can be vulnerable in sharing too. On busy nights or when my son is extremely fussy, we move through this process very quickly. Reading a short story out of my sons bible (it’s a toddlers bible so when I say short I mean short- 1 minute or less), we quickly share our joys and concerns- what are you grateful for? “A good day and my health.” Then we say the prayer that we say every night as we rock him and get ready to put our son in his bed. On other nights when my husband and I have had a really hard day and when our son is cooperating we take more time to really talk about our joys and our concerns and to share with one another. If “Thumper” is really tired we’ll put him to bed and say let’s continue this conversation downstairs. I have come to cherish and look forward to this time. It is not always easy and it is definitely not perfect but by creating space and keeping things simple I have discovered a way for my family to connect and have Holy Conversations. I pray that you will find a way to do this too. It might be at meals, it might be at bedtime, or it might be some other random time of the day. When my son was going to day care we would always ask him after getting him in his seat and starting the car: “what was your favorite part of the day? and then “What was hard today?” Since he is not talking yet these questions are always followed by silence and this gives me space to think and reflect too while creating the space and setting a routine so that my son will grow to expect these questions as he gets older. You and your family will find what works best for you. The most important thing is that you keep things simple, embrace the mess, and let go of any expectations of perfection or providing the right answers.

God is with you! Let God guide you as you rest in the knowledge that you have all you need to join your family in these important conversations.

As you do this work,  I pray you and your family will be blessed as you grow together. 

Playlist for doing this important work:

• Listen: Episode #5: Holy Conversations

• Respond:

  • Give yourself permission to: keep things simple as you embrace the mess

  • Pay attention to your daily routine:

    • where does your family gather during the day? Could this be your safe space for holy conversations?

    • what conversations are you already having with your family? What does this look like for you?

  • Practice having holy conversations:

    • how does it feel to ask big questions?

    • how does it feel to sit in the silence?

    • what are you and your family discovering together?

  • Weekly Blessing:

    God is with you! Let God guide you and know you have all you need to join your family in these important conversations.